what is your take on this?
woke up this morning and it was COLD! damn folks, it is spring. the shows last night were just great, the downtown CRACKERS club here in indy gets a good mature audience; i like people who read the newspaper, get references and can follow a to b to c to d to punch line. i think the bob and tom show helped the turnout.
regardless of the arguments of the gun owners/carriers and some of them were very well reasoned out, i still think that carrying a gun is not a good idea. once person wrote and said that i was one of the ones who wanted to tell other people what to do. wrong, i am expressing an opinion that not all people should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. and i repeat, i own guns, rifles and pistols both. we lead the industralized world in crime including murder, gun deaths, robberies, assualts etc. we are a gun society and we pay a price for that. by having guns so available we make it easy for the criminals to get guns and you can't argue that. in a way, it is just like drugs, you can go into any city in america and get both guns and drugs and it won't take you a full day of seaching. answer? i don't fucking know. i do know that, in a perfect world, we would not need guns. also regardless, ANYONE is capable of losing their temper and doing something incredibly stupid. once that bullet leaves the barrel there is no taking it back, you can pull a punch you can't pull a 9mm. (sean bell was shot 50 times by the police and the main factor was that some fool said "go get my gun" and the police thought someone had one so now more lives are ruined. along that line, police are so often put in "no win" situations and i feel for the bride to be and for the police and their families as well)
let us move on to other subjects. the polygamists in texas and the children being put in foster homes is one real sticky situation. foster homes are many times a real nightmare and taking children away from their parents without concrete proof of abuse is a scary use of government authority.
i am no fan of any kind of a cult and this group has the markings of one but this particular case just sits wrong with me. making 13 year old girls "marry" some middle-aged man is wrong and IF they did that then charge the specific man and the person who arranged it with rape. man oh man, tough questions abound in this case.
i got a lot of feed back on guns, what do you all think about this?
regardless of the arguments of the gun owners/carriers and some of them were very well reasoned out, i still think that carrying a gun is not a good idea. once person wrote and said that i was one of the ones who wanted to tell other people what to do. wrong, i am expressing an opinion that not all people should be allowed to carry a concealed weapon. and i repeat, i own guns, rifles and pistols both. we lead the industralized world in crime including murder, gun deaths, robberies, assualts etc. we are a gun society and we pay a price for that. by having guns so available we make it easy for the criminals to get guns and you can't argue that. in a way, it is just like drugs, you can go into any city in america and get both guns and drugs and it won't take you a full day of seaching. answer? i don't fucking know. i do know that, in a perfect world, we would not need guns. also regardless, ANYONE is capable of losing their temper and doing something incredibly stupid. once that bullet leaves the barrel there is no taking it back, you can pull a punch you can't pull a 9mm. (sean bell was shot 50 times by the police and the main factor was that some fool said "go get my gun" and the police thought someone had one so now more lives are ruined. along that line, police are so often put in "no win" situations and i feel for the bride to be and for the police and their families as well)
let us move on to other subjects. the polygamists in texas and the children being put in foster homes is one real sticky situation. foster homes are many times a real nightmare and taking children away from their parents without concrete proof of abuse is a scary use of government authority.
i am no fan of any kind of a cult and this group has the markings of one but this particular case just sits wrong with me. making 13 year old girls "marry" some middle-aged man is wrong and IF they did that then charge the specific man and the person who arranged it with rape. man oh man, tough questions abound in this case.
i got a lot of feed back on guns, what do you all think about this?
posted by Ron Shock | 8:46 AM
12 Comments:
Compared to this, guns is an easy topic...
I don't have enough evidence one way or another--And that is a big part of what is wrong here. The police should have invited the media to ride along and document whatever happened, good or bad. I'm willing to take freedom of religion quite a long way. I have no problem with the polygamy part (for someone else that is--One at a time is all I can deal with) but I have a huge problem with raising young girls to be arranged wives for old men.
The question is where is it child abuse despite religion, and where is it government interference with religious belief? I think arranged polygamous marriages before 16 is abuse, and I'm not sure of 17 or 18--I wouldn't like that either, but it may be where religious freedom trumps child abuse.
If we find through DNA testing that a substantial number of the young girls were mothers at 16, with middle aged men as fathers, I think the government acted properly. I think what we are likely to find is that nearly everyone is wrong.
and i think you are right.
it also seems,that in situations such as this, there is a lot of "brainwashing" going on and children would be highly susceptible to a "message" that was preached to them by not only every authority figure but their older "peers" as well. then the lines between "right" and "wrong" become very faint when relating to sex, marriage, child abuse, age differential, wife/wives, father, family and assorted other subjects that we, you and i, look at and judge from our perspective which, of course, is shaped and influenced by what our "society" tells us is right or wrong. to these kids what is happening is "normal" and what "everyone" does.
the amount of counseling that is going to be required if these children are, indeed, removed from the only family they have known and from the only society they have ever known is just staggering and, regardless of the intent, may just fuck them up even more.
no easy answers here. maybe no justice either.
We can cure cancer, we can reduce violence, we can feed the hungry, and we can house the homeless. But unfortunately the world will always have twisted individuals who think they can do anything in the name of religion.
As for the children, it’s going to be a long road to recovery. I was reading about a young woman who left one of the polygamy cults. She went wild after leaving, leading to drug addiction. She still fears she will be taken back by members of the sect she left. She now helps other people leave polygamy cults.
Thousands of kids have run away from home and gone wild, that happens in every community and they all have their excuses. I have learned through experience that trusting what the government says is naïve because like run away kids they will lie to justify their actions.
Up until a few years ago the age of consent in Texas was 17, they changed it because this teacher had sex with a 17 year old student and they couldn’t prosecute him for it. They got him for child pornography instead, you guessed it, he filmed the whole thing. Everyone said “well that’s kind of dumb, you can screw a 17 year old, you just can’t film it?” So they changed the age of consent to match the porno law.
You can debate what is and what is not a child all day long but the government wants it both ways. You are a child if you’re under 18 until you kill somebody. Apparently though you’re not old enough to decide if you want to have sex or who you want to have sex with at 16 you magically gain adult judgment skills when you get a hold of dad’s pistol.
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I'm sure the kids you are talking about don't have to marry a cousin.
The one I was talking about did. Thats why she left.
As for trusting the government, ok fine, who do we trust to look after the children?
Where I was raised that was the parents job.
People use to get married a lot younger than they do today and stayed together for life. What changed, we started living longer, communication became better, travel became easier so we now know there are other, better places then we are at and other more attractive people in those places. I would be willing to bet that in early America when all you had to choose from where people within walking distance marrying your cousin wasn't uncommon and I would also guess that in closed societies like those people in Texas it's also not uncommon.
Arranged marriages have been occurring as far back as people have been keeping records and still do. Though uncommon in the US they still happen and most of the time it's religious or cultural tradition.
I'm not saying no one needs to step in when the parents are not protecting their children, I'm just saying don't believe everything the government tells you. Until Waco I thought I lived in a country ruled by law and all people regardless of position had to obey those laws. Waco showed us that the ATF and FBI get a pass. This will show us that any government agency has a pass. Since when do we arrest entire communities before we have any evidence based on one phone call.
Hey I have a thought, the next time an abortion activist kills someone we need to round up all of the Baptists in the country. Then the next time a priest gets caught with his pants down we can grab Catholics and if we work this right it won't be long until we free ourselves of all this religious nuttism, of course my religion would be off limits because we are right.
Every person who says "Where I was raised that was the parent’s job." knows damn well the place where they grew up had people who could not look after a dog, much less a kid so don't feed me that bullshit. I know it's the parents “job”, but we have an alarming amount of people who don't "show up for work" on a regular basis. So in that situation, who looks after the children?
And I don’t believe everything the government tells me, I also don’t believe that everything they say and do is a lie.
I don't know why you decided to bring up abortion activist, but just let me say this, that person is killing someone who does not believe in the same thing they believe in. That sounds a bit extreme to me.
As for freeing ourselves of all this nuttism, I'm in. I have my own beliefs, but I don't attend any church, I don't need someone to tell me if I'm wrong or right. Or to tell me I can't befriend someone who may be of a different faith. I live in the "Bible Belt" area of my province (almost a different religion on every corner lol). Every church going person I talk to about religion has a different take on it than the next; some even get outright upset if you bring up "The Catholics". I went to a Pentecost church while I was growing up and I heard people in that church tear down other religions.
So ya, I say keep God, dump religion, even yours. Sorry but I had a bit of inspiration from the phrase "One nation under God" sounds good to me, under God, not "Under (insert the religion of the week here)"
The point is, even if you don't like the lifestyle some other group is practicing it's not the governments job to dictate morality.
I don't really care if someone has more than one wife or husband, or if gays want to get married. What I care about is the growing tendency for the government to single out a group of people for annihilation. They don't go after the criminals anymore they go after a whole culture. What’s sad is most of the time these folks don't stand a chance, local, state and federal law enforcement play on preconceived notions and the common religious beliefs to paint a picture to outrage the masses so no one cares if they break a few rules to get these dirty child molesting religious nuts.
The reason I brought up the abortion activist is because it’s an example of crime justified by someone’s religious beliefs.
Oh I agree, people should be let alone to live their lives.
It would be nice if more religions were tolerant of other religions, and other lifestyles.
And it would be nice if more people could have discussions like we have had without it becoming a flame war, seems like the World is filling up with more an more hate, and distrust.
People can get really upset if they think you are questioning their beliefs.
great stuff, guys (or girls, as case may be)!
waco was mass murder on the governments side. that it never became a "cause" speaks volumes to the "conscious" of the american people.
i copyrighted a name for a church:
THE CHURCH OF LOGICAL THOUGHT
but i haven't had any.
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